Re: [atlarge-discuss] Panel Motion Passed! On to Elections!

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Judyth and all fellow members,

espresso@e-scape.net wrote:

> At 18:39 -0800 2003/04/03, Jeff Williams wrote:
> >  Hogwash here Judyth!  You made a pledge, do you recall?
> >If not I shall post that Archived E-Mail of your pledge.  You broke
> >that pledge.  In addition in doing so, you have earned disrespect
> >and distrust.
>
> Dear Jeff et al.,
>
> Read the archives, by all means.

  I do twice a week.  I also Grep them into my database.

> You will see that the mini-ballot
> option chosen by a majority of those members who chose to vote
> called for me to hold the information on behalf of the group
> for use in the conduct of elections.

  Indeed true.  However that ballot was not one that was of
any official nature or approved by the majority of the participating
mambers.  Hence,as such has no standing legally.

>
>
> You will also see, and I hope understand, that the call for
> new elections requires that somebody conduct those elections
> on behalf of the group, and that it was our Interim Panel
> which was charged with that duty, not me personally or any
> other member personally.

  Also I agree and have always agreed with this.  However again
the Ex-Panel no longer officially exists.  Hence such does not
let you our of the responsibility of honering your Pledge.  This
you did no do.  Therefore you violated your pledge and
in doing so endangered the members privacy and security,
expossed if not made certain, that a number of the members to
potential great harm unecessarly and irresponsively.

  However this fact also did not give you the right to pass to
ANYONE the membership list without each members
expressed premission.  That you did not and still do not
have.  Yet you did it regardless, and by a unsecure means,
FTP.  You sould have first checked to find out if the
reciepiants of that information have secure systems
that meet a minimum documented, and excepted
standard.  Second you sould have used SFTP or
another form of secure transmission.  You did not do
so.  Third, you knew that Jefseys PC/System is NOT secure
as the evidance has been presented to this very forum.
Forth, you failed to act responsibly as well in that
it is known that Eric's system is not secure either and
you did not seek to gather that information before hand,
or did not even consider such prior to insecurely transmitting
via FTP, the membership list.

  So regardless of your weaseling here, you and you predominantly
are personally responsible even under Canadian law.  Thankfully
extradition to the US from Canada is not a problem.

> There being three remaining members
> serving on the Interim Panel (which, by the way, should have been
> given the information by Vittorio in the first place when he
> resigned), that duty falls to them.

  Again there is NO panel now Judyth.  That is well documented,
and even already stated by those of the defunct Panel that have resinged.

Indeed elections have been needed as such is seemingly desired
by a representative sample in Joops poll, of members.

>
>
> New elections do not spring from nowhere all by themselves.
> Our discussions on this list led to the distinct possibility
> that Joop would organize one election and Jefsey another,
> neither of which had been approved by either the rump Panel
> or the membership.

  Indeed again true that elections do not perceipitate themselves.
Yet this also is still not excuse for your irresponsible and illegal
action that has endangered every member here.

> The result would have been the end of
> this ICANNATLARGE.ORG effort in a total shambles.

  ICANNATLARGE.ORG as a Domain Name does not even
belong to the membership or this fledgling organization.  Neither
does this very E-Mail list forum.  ICANNATLARGE.ORG
as any form of an organization legally does not exist but is
in formation still.  Hence a stratiegic pause/on hold.  So
your chaeracterization of "In shambles" is of your own making
and in your own mind.  Not in reality.

> Not having
> an agreed-upon election process would have the same result
> but if no better idea comes up, ICANNATLARGE.ORG *does* have
> an election procedure of sorts which was approved prior to
> the previous election.

  Again indeed PRIOR to the first and only actual election that has
been held, which was illigitamate at best, did not go well as the
archives show clearly.  This hampered the performance of the
the now defunct Panel members in achieving any goals, but did
not prevent accomplishment.  In any event, that election process
was than, and afterwhich was not wanted to be used EVER again.
Hence, we are still without a election Method/process that is
secure and safe for the members.  This is so predominantly
because we have no funding by which to either purchase
the many different election and/or voting systems avalible,
and also in part because what Vittorio promised  to deliver
a voting system, which he did not do.  BTW I believe that
Hugh supported that idea or effort.  However many of us
here have been down that road before with the IDNO
experiance.

>
>
> >  Members are what matters here.  And ALL that matters if
> >ICANNATLARGE.ORG is to live up to it's very name.
>
> I agree with this statement completely, and call upon our
> triumvirate (Bruce. Jefsey and Eric) to present a complete
> proposal and timetable for the elections as soon as possible,
> after which I can only hope we will reach a consensus to
> allow the elections to proceeed, after suggesting any
> improvements to the proposal that may be needed.

  They have no mandate.  They cannot do so legally.  If attempted
such may well be met with legal action.

>
>
> >The members voted to disband the Panel in Joops poll
> >and called for new elections.  Almost all of the than existing
> >Panel members soon thereafter resigned, and a few called
> >for new elections forth with.  This has not occurred.  It cannot
> >safely, precipitously and honestly occur unless or until we
> >have decided upon a Voting method that protects the
> >privacy of the members and the integrity of the voting
> >process.
>
> Procedure aside, in practical terms we have a profound
> disagreement between three very vocal members as to how
> an election should be held without the intervention of the
> rump Panel and without any means of ascertaining what process
> the whole membership would approve.

  There is no "rump Panel" or Any "Panel" presently.

>
>
> Endless in-fighting will not resolve the stalemate and the Panel
> refused to speak with one voice until my possession of the
> membership list and insistence on a Panel motion compelled
> them to accept the collective nature of their responsibility.

  Eric, Bruce, nor Jefsey were not elected as Panel members.
The members voted via Joops poll that the previous panel is no more.

>
>
> >  YOU Judyth, have without the consent of the members,
> >by request of ONLY three members, sent the membership list
> >which you pledged to protect to nonexistent panel members
> >by your own admission.  That is not excusable unless or until
> >you had the permission of the members.  In doing so you
> >have surely exposed some if not many members to hackers,
> >spammers, and those that would engage in identity theft by
> >transmitting the membership list via FTP which is not secure.
> >
> >  Hence in my capacity as a citizen of the US, a member of
> >the security community and USG, if find myself required now
> >to file the necessary documentation regarding these events,
> >to the proper legal authorities.  I have already been on the
> >Phone today with several of those authorities in the US and
> >Canada for almost 3 hours in total.  I shall be forwarding the
> >remainder of the event documentation which I saved in my
> >SECURE database and from other independent sources
> >that are also aware to those authorities for further legal
> >filings.
>
> If you choose to waste your time and money on frivolous lawsuits,
> go to it.

  Oh it's not my money.  And nothing wasted.  But even if it were
it would still not be wasted.  Principals are worth every dime
and much much more...

> Threats and intimidation simply don't work on me,
> Jeff, as you should know by now. Come to think of it, if I
> were the litigious type I could probably sue you for a thing
> or two, and I'm sure that with your vast organization and
> expert skills, you have far more to lose than I do as a freelance
> editor who has spent far too many workable hours on this
> group instead of making money. Unless you can figure out how
> to seize my debts, you're SOL - no house, no car, and nothing
> over the personal assets protected by law from seizure. [:-)]

  Garniture of wages is one but one possibility.  And I will not
be making a dime.  And your ignorance of even Canadian
law is astounding given your comments here...

>
>
> Meanwhile, of course, I sent the files not by FTP but by e-mail
> to the three remaining Panelists. (It is interesting that after
> all the false accusations and complaints against me, none of
> the three had acknowledged their receipt of the files within
> 48 hours.) Since the files were sent to me improperly in the
> first place, I had no real mandate to do anything with them
> except what the voters in my straw poll told me to: hang onto
> them and make them available for use in the elections.
>
> I have done this and would gladly have erased my copies but have
> acceded to the Panel's request that I hold onto them as backups,
> at least until the group can agree on a third-party escrow.
> As I explained to this list, the files are now on a diskette and
> I still haven't opened them.
>
> Jeff, there is no reason to believe any of the three is less
> trustworthy than Vittorio who had the information before I did.
> I should never have been given the files in the first place but
> made no illicit use of them myself, and we all know by now you
> think I'm the least honest of the lot. Meanwhile, we all know the
> Web site was hacked during Vittorio's watch and that Joop also
> has the membership list with perhaps a handful of exceptions.
> If you get spammed or the site gets hacked again, it won't be
> my fault so I don't think you can frighten me by saying you'll
> try to lay it at my door.
>
> >> In any case, I would rather this group carried on and
> >> elected a new Panel which can start fresh, especially if the
> >> only other option is more of the very-man-for-himself-ism
> >> we've seen these past months.
> >>
> >> Give the guys a break and let them do the $#$%^& job they
> >> were elected for.
> >
> >  "They" as you put it, no longer exist legitimately as yo well know
> >Judyth.
>
> As far as I am concerned (and most other members, I suspect) the
> current Interim Panel ceases to exist at the moment their
> successors are elected.

  Your suspecion has already been shown as no being correct
as Richard already has yet again provided in his post yesterday.

> However, the current Panelists are well
> aware their mandate at this point is to properly organize the
> election of those successors, nothing more and nothing less.

  And that mandate does not exist.

>
>
> I look forward to seeing what happens next...

  Perhaps getting your affairs in order is a good idea.  And
consider bying some/allot of soap on a rope, just in case!

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Judyth
>
> ##########################################################
> Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
> Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
> ##########################################################
> "A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
> "Un mot suffit aux sages; pour les autres, il en faut plus."
> ##########################################################
>
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Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801



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