Re: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool, organized and simple

["Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>]

Basically, I am in great agreement with Jefsey, because in my opinion he has

(a) identified the multiplicity of groups that should grow up, with varied
missions, varied interests, and probably each desiring a varied web presence
(in varied languages etc)

(b) identified an "architecture" which would help empower these groups,
while retaining some overarching identity - this "architecture" is
imaginative and has the potential to be really successful

(c) identified one approach to setting this up - which can be compared with
other proposals of course.

My ideal would be 50 varied groups, each FTP-ing their own identity and
concerns onto their own "portion" of netspace. This could then grow to 200+
groups as the movement grows more diverse, more international, more local.

What we should be aiming to build is a network of autonomous communities,
and I feel the role of world@large is to be a kind of shared interface which
does not govern, but is governed.

Jefsey's architecture is ideal for the "real" @large I envisage : not a
centralised ICANN pressure group, but a long-term network of communities
which has an integrity just being what it is. It is less 'political' : it is
more 'communal'. Whether ICANN succeeds, flourishes, evolves or collapses,
the @large still exists  - and by developing in this way, it will strengthen
its case against ICANN autocracy, and help make the ICANN politburo seem
increasingly isolated, despotic and out of touch.

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
To: <atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de>
Cc: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 2:52 PM
Subject: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool, organized and simple


> Dear all,
> I am extremely confused by the situation regarding our organization, its
> name and its web site(s). I am also surprised at the way we cannot
organize
> into some reasonable international simple concertance.
>
>
> 1. name
>
> We are the @large. That name has history,  definitions, records. We are
not
> a specific body, we are a crowd, and we want to be a large crowd. We do
not
> want to be ruled and directed, but helped into common understandings and
> actions.
>
> To that end we need some support structures. These structures must have a
> name. That name is natural when we consider the countries (like
> france@large), by consequence we can think that icann@large will be
> understood as the @large people interested in ICANN.
>
>
> 2. structure
>
> We have elected a panel (the name of which is naturally panel@large) and
we
> need a small legal structure to embody it, the
> secretariat  (secretariat@large), the accounting etc... That worldwide,
all
> Internet and administrative concerns structure needs a name.
>
> it can be world@large, internet@large, admin@large.
>
> I favor world@large for the reason the "@" is already associated with
> Internet in the brainware and that, by nature, an incorporated structure
is
> to carry administration. This also frees the names for more specific WGs.
>
>
> 3. naming plan / directory
>
> we have a brainware built-in directory:
>
> - structure: wold@large, admin@large, possibly internet@large
> - geographic : france@large, new-york@large, etc..
> - thematic: icann@lagre, isoc@large, gac@large
>
> what people do with it, is their cup of tea. Names like:
>
> http://workdatlarge.org
> http://atlarge.ca
> http://at-large.de
>
> are good to me if it is good to them. Anyway I cannot do anything about
it.
>
>
> 4. TLD
>
> The idea of including TLD in legal names does not make any sense. If there
> is a TLD, it means it is an address. If there is no TLD, it means it is a
> body.
>
> Including TLDs in names has been repetedly refused by WIPO and judges as
> making any difference. It is confusing and only shows that the people
> wearing it have not really understood what DNS is (unless the TLD has a
> particular added meaning, apart from "I have been sold by ISOC").
>
> "atlarge.org" can be UDRPed by atlarge.com. A TLD is NO part of a name.
The
> idea that a name must be on ".com", ".org", ".net" is a US centric idea,
> which is outdated as ".info", ".us" etc. take over.
>
> This looks as people giving their telephone number, but not bothering
about
> the area code. Their forename but not their name. The TLD is the area code
> or the name in an Internet name. Boring to memorize it? well if I tell you
> to send me a mail to "jefsey" and I suppose you know that I am
> under  "@club-internet.fr" who will be boring who?
>
>
> 4. the atlarge ULD
>
> an ULD (upper level domain) is an SLD used as a charter for a proposed TLD
> (see below). Our target as @large is to have new TLDs permitted ASAP. The
> first TLD we want is ".atlarge".
>
> To support that project I have initiated though the world@wide foundation,
> the "@LARGE WORLD SYSTEM" (@WS project, to propose, organize and operate
> the ".atlarge" ULD. That project obviously uses the SLD ".atlarge.ws" for
> immediate support and also supports the ".atlarge" TLD as part of the
> ICANN/ICP-3 compliant experimental dot-root project.
>
> This project will provide a free Internet name to every @large cell
> requesting it. It will be managed by the WG-@WS any of you can join. Its
> CIC (Community Information Center) address is http://atlarge.ws.
>
> Upon registration an "xyz" @large cell will get the following internet
> names supported:
> http://xyz.atlarge.ws xyz@large.ws and ---@xyz.atlarge.ws
> http://xyz.atlarge and ---@xyz.atlarge
> These internet names can be used as main or alias addresses.
>
> Please see the CIC for examples.
>
>
> 5. Site resources
>
> We need to help the local cells to establish their own sites. The
> world@wide foundation can provide free or very low cost hosting of sites
to
> the WG and local cells - including ftp dedicated access, mails and mailing
> lists. But it has not the management resources to organize that. It needs
help.
>
>
> 6. Aliases
>
> It seems that a lot of misunderstandings on the @large name issue comes
> from a lack of command of the aliases. To understand better:
>
> - domain names are very specific names of real properties (machines, disk
> space, IP addresses, server etc). They have been used in a confusing way.
> - Internet uses numbers (IP addresses) and names.
>
> Internet names are used by the DNS *and* by several other functions to get
> into a defined place.
> - DNS relates a name to a machine
> - Apache relates a name on a machine to a virtual host
> - sendmail etc.. relates a name on a machine to a mailbox into a mail
directory
>
> These systems accept aliases. This means that the same place may be
> accessed with different names. But that information has to be provided to
> the corresponding tool (DNS, Apache, sendmail).
>
> The most common use of aliases is the "http://www.name.com"; and
> "http://name.com";. These are two different Internet names. To be supported
> that names MUST have been entered as aliases (or CNAME in DNS wording)
both
> in the DNS and in Apache.
>
> This means that the *existing* site http://icannatlarge.com can be easily
> accessed as:
>
> - http://worldatlarge.org
> - http://world.atlarge.ws
> - http://joanna.lane.co.uk
> - http://www.jeff.williams.tk
>
> etc... as long as the IP of the server has been declared in the DNS for
> these names and their www.aliases and that these names have been entered
in
> the host configuration as aliases. Joop could have made it supported for
> months. He asked for me to point icannatlarge.org to icannatlarge,com but
> never provide the IP and the response on his ability to accept it as an
alias.
>
>
> 7. organization management
>
> We obviously have an organization management problem. That problem is not
> the problem of our group; that problem is generic. We want to relate by
> mail between independent people and organizations and to take joint
> decisions, etc. while having people submitted to very strict financial
> limitations irt access and traffic. This cannot simply be done unless we
> design an appropriate tool. I think we are a unique group of various
> nations, cultures and competences to specify and test such a product. We
> however need a few designers to program it.
>
>
>  >>> call for help
>
> With all this in mind I call for help. In order to :
>
> - share in the WG-@WS working group to manage the ".atlarge" namespace.
> - share in a faq@atlarge site and mailing list to help the @large people
to
> understand how to build the Internet presence of their cell
> - share in the specification and the development of a generic tool
> supporting our management. I suppose it should be written in C for the
> server site and in Java for a local applet.
>
> jfc
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