Re: [atlarge-discuss] RE: [atlarge-panel] Re: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool, organized and simple

[Joey Borda **star*walker** <starwalker@gay.com>]

Judith (et al):

There’s nothing like taking back what’s yours to begin with when co-opted by others. So Stuart Lynn's co-opted "go forth and multiply"? So What?!

I can deal with that the same as I’ve dealt with being called “queer” and “fag” all my life!

“I AM queer and I AM fag! Would you like to do something about it?!”

Well... “I am going forth and multiplying!” “WE are going forth and multiplying!” -- unlike the freaking charlatan who’s appropriated “going forth and multiplying” to his evil purposes against me (us).

Returning to “cool” standby mode now… ;-)  /s/ Joey

Tuesday, August 27, 2002 * 11:39 AM EDT USA
=====
There is something wonderful in seeing a wrong-headed majority assailed by truth.
---
“The Majority,” John Kenneth Galbraith (b. 1908), U.S. economist. Guardian (London, 28 July 1989).
=====

At 11:12 AM 8/27/2002 -0400, Judith Oppenheimer wrote:

>Why does it remind me of Stuart Lynn's "go forth and multiply"?
>
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>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Richard Henderson [mailto:richardhenderson@ntlworld.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:26 AM
>> To: atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de; J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin
>> Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
>> Subject: [atlarge-panel] Re: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool,
>> organized
>> and simple
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Basically, I am in great agreement with Jefsey, because in my
>> opinion he has
>>
>> (a) identified the multiplicity of groups that should grow
>> up, with varied
>> missions, varied interests, and probably each desiring a
>> varied web presence
>> (in varied languages etc)
>>
>> (b) identified an "architecture" which would help empower
>> these groups,
>> while retaining some overarching identity - this "architecture" is
>> imaginative and has the potential to be really successful
>>
>> (c) identified one approach to setting this up - which can be
>> compared with
>> other proposals of course.
>>
>> My ideal would be 50 varied groups, each FTP-ing their own
>> identity and
>> concerns onto their own "portion" of netspace. This could
>> then grow to 200+
>> groups as the movement grows more diverse, more
>> international, more local.
>>
>> What we should be aiming to build is a network of autonomous
>> communities,
>> and I feel the role of world@large is to be a kind of shared
>> interface which
>> does not govern, but is governed.
>>
>> Jefsey's architecture is ideal for the "real" @large I
>> envisage : not a
>> centralised ICANN pressure group, but a long-term network of
>> communities
>> which has an integrity just being what it is. It is less
>> 'political' : it is
>> more 'communal'. Whether ICANN succeeds, flourishes, evolves
>> or collapses,
>> the @large still exists  - and by developing in this way, it
>> will strengthen
>> its case against ICANN autocracy, and help make the ICANN
>> politburo seem
>> increasingly isolated, despotic and out of touch.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
>> To: <atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de>
>> Cc: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 2:52 PM
>> Subject: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool, organized and simple
>>
>>
>> > Dear all,
>> > I am extremely confused by the situation regarding our
>> organization, its
>> > name and its web site(s). I am also surprised at the way we cannot
>> organize
>> > into some reasonable international simple concertance.
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. name
>> >
>> > We are the @large. That name has history,  definitions,
>> records. We are
>> not
>> > a specific body, we are a crowd, and we want to be a large
>> crowd. We do
>> not
>> > want to be ruled and directed, but helped into common
>> understandings and
>> > actions.
>> >
>> > To that end we need some support structures. These
>> structures must have a
>> > name. That name is natural when we consider the countries (like
>> > france@large), by consequence we can think that icann@large will be
>> > understood as the @large people interested in ICANN.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2. structure
>> >
>> > We have elected a panel (the name of which is naturally
>> panel@large) and
>> we
>> > need a small legal structure to embody it, the
>> > secretariat  (secretariat@large), the accounting etc...
>> That worldwide,
>> all
>> > Internet and administrative concerns structure needs a name.
>> >
>> > it can be world@large, internet@large, admin@large.
>> >
>> > I favor world@large for the reason the "@" is already
>> associated with
>> > Internet in the brainware and that, by nature, an
>> incorporated structure
>> is
>> > to carry administration. This also frees the names for more
>> specific WGs.
>> >
>> >
>> > 3. naming plan / directory
>> >
>> > we have a brainware built-in directory:
>> >
>> > - structure: wold@large, admin@large, possibly internet@large
>> > - geographic : france@large, new-york@large, etc..
>> > - thematic: icann@lagre, isoc@large, gac@large
>> >
>> > what people do with it, is their cup of tea. Names like:
>> >
>> > http://workdatlarge.org
>> > http://atlarge.ca
>> > http://at-large.de
>> >
>> > are good to me if it is good to them. Anyway I cannot do
>> anything about
>> it.
>> >
>> >
>> > 4. TLD
>> >
>> > The idea of including TLD in legal names does not make any
>> sense. If there
>> > is a TLD, it means it is an address. If there is no TLD, it
>> means it is a
>> > body.
>> >
>> > Including TLDs in names has been repetedly refused by WIPO
>> and judges as
>> > making any difference. It is confusing and only shows that
>> the people
>> > wearing it have not really understood what DNS is (unless
>> the TLD has a
>> > particular added meaning, apart from "I have been sold by ISOC").
>> >
>> > "atlarge.org" can be UDRPed by atlarge.com. A TLD is NO
>> part of a name.
>> The
>> > idea that a name must be on ".com", ".org", ".net" is a US
>> centric idea,
>> > which is outdated as ".info", ".us" etc. take over.
>> >
>> > This looks as people giving their telephone number, but not
>> bothering
>> about
>> > the area code. Their forename but not their name. The TLD
>> is the area code
>> > or the name in an Internet name. Boring to memorize it?
>> well if I tell you
>> > to send me a mail to "jefsey" and I suppose you know that I am
>> > under  "@club-internet.fr" who will be boring who?
>> >
>> >
>> > 4. the atlarge ULD
>> >
>> > an ULD (upper level domain) is an SLD used as a charter for
>> a proposed TLD
>> > (see below). Our target as @large is to have new TLDs
>> permitted ASAP. The
>> > first TLD we want is ".atlarge".
>> >
>> > To support that project I have initiated though the
>> world@wide foundation,
>> > the "@LARGE WORLD SYSTEM" (@WS project, to propose,
>> organize and operate
>> > the ".atlarge" ULD. That project obviously uses the SLD
>> ".atlarge.ws" for
>> > immediate support and also supports the ".atlarge" TLD as
>> part of the
>> > ICANN/ICP-3 compliant experimental dot-root project.
>> >
>> > This project will provide a free Internet name to every @large cell
>> > requesting it. It will be managed by the WG-@WS any of you
>> can join. Its
>> > CIC (Community Information Center) address is http://atlarge.ws.
>> >
>> > Upon registration an "xyz" @large cell will get the
>> following internet
>> > names supported:
>> > http://xyz.atlarge.ws xyz@large.ws and ---@xyz.atlarge.ws
>> > http://xyz.atlarge and ---@xyz.atlarge
>> > These internet names can be used as main or alias addresses.
>> >
>> > Please see the CIC for examples.
>> >
>> >
>> > 5. Site resources
>> >
>> > We need to help the local cells to establish their own sites. The
>> > world@wide foundation can provide free or very low cost
>> hosting of sites
>> to
>> > the WG and local cells - including ftp dedicated access,
>> mails and mailing
>> > lists. But it has not the management resources to organize
>> that. It needs
>> help.
>> >
>> >
>> > 6. Aliases
>> >
>> > It seems that a lot of misunderstandings on the @large name
>> issue comes
>> > from a lack of command of the aliases. To understand better:
>> >
>> > - domain names are very specific names of real properties
>> (machines, disk
>> > space, IP addresses, server etc). They have been used in a
>> confusing way.
>> > - Internet uses numbers (IP addresses) and names.
>> >
>> > Internet names are used by the DNS *and* by several other
>> functions to get
>> > into a defined place.
>> > - DNS relates a name to a machine
>> > - Apache relates a name on a machine to a virtual host
>> > - sendmail etc.. relates a name on a machine to a mailbox
>> into a mail
>> directory
>> >
>> > These systems accept aliases. This means that the same place may be
>> > accessed with different names. But that information has to
>> be provided to
>> > the corresponding tool (DNS, Apache, sendmail).
>> >
>> > The most common use of aliases is the "http://www.name.com"; and
>> > "http://name.com";. These are two different Internet names.
>> To be supported
>> > that names MUST have been entered as aliases (or CNAME in
>> DNS wording)
>> both
>> > in the DNS and in Apache.
>> >
>> > This means that the *existing* site http://icannatlarge.com
>> can be easily
>> > accessed as:
>> >
>> > - http://worldatlarge.org
>> > - http://world.atlarge.ws
>> > - http://joanna.lane.co.uk
>> > - http://www.jeff.williams.tk
>> >
>> > etc... as long as the IP of the server has been declared in
>> the DNS for
>> > these names and their www.aliases and that these names have
>> been entered
>> in
>> > the host configuration as aliases. Joop could have made it
>> supported for
>> > months. He asked for me to point icannatlarge.org to
>> icannatlarge,com but
>> > never provide the IP and the response on his ability to
>> accept it as an
>> alias.
>> >
>> >
>> > 7. organization management
>> >
>> > We obviously have an organization management problem. That
>> problem is not
>> > the problem of our group; that problem is generic. We want
>> to relate by
>> > mail between independent people and organizations and to take joint
>> > decisions, etc. while having people submitted to very
>> strict financial
>> > limitations irt access and traffic. This cannot simply be
>> done unless we
>> > design an appropriate tool. I think we are a unique group of various
>> > nations, cultures and competences to specify and test such
>> a product. We
>> > however need a few designers to program it.
>> >
>> >
>> >  >>> call for help
>> >
>> > With all this in mind I call for help. In order to :
>> >
>> > - share in the WG-@WS working group to manage the
>> ".atlarge" namespace.
>> > - share in a faq@atlarge site and mailing list to help the
>> @large people
>> to
>> > understand how to build the Internet presence of their cell
>> > - share in the specification and the development of a generic tool
>> > supporting our management. I suppose it should be written
>> in C for the
>> > server site and in Java for a local applet.
>> >
>> > jfc
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>> >
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