[atlarge-discuss] Re: [atlarge-panel] Re: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool, organized and simple

["Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>]

I thought it was God who said that?

----- Original Message -----
From: Judith Oppenheimer <joppenheimer@icbtollfree.com>
To: 'Richard Henderson' <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>;
<atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de>; 'J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin'
<jefsey@club-internet.fr>
Cc: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: [atlarge-panel] Re: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool, organized
and simple


> Why does it remind me of Stuart Lynn's "go forth and multiply"?
>
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> Judith Oppenheimer
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>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard Henderson [mailto:richardhenderson@ntlworld.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:26 AM
> > To: atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de; J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin
> > Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
> > Subject: [atlarge-panel] Re: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool,
> > organized
> > and simple
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Basically, I am in great agreement with Jefsey, because in my
> > opinion he has
> >
> > (a) identified the multiplicity of groups that should grow
> > up, with varied
> > missions, varied interests, and probably each desiring a
> > varied web presence
> > (in varied languages etc)
> >
> > (b) identified an "architecture" which would help empower
> > these groups,
> > while retaining some overarching identity - this "architecture" is
> > imaginative and has the potential to be really successful
> >
> > (c) identified one approach to setting this up - which can be
> > compared with
> > other proposals of course.
> >
> > My ideal would be 50 varied groups, each FTP-ing their own
> > identity and
> > concerns onto their own "portion" of netspace. This could
> > then grow to 200+
> > groups as the movement grows more diverse, more
> > international, more local.
> >
> > What we should be aiming to build is a network of autonomous
> > communities,
> > and I feel the role of world@large is to be a kind of shared
> > interface which
> > does not govern, but is governed.
> >
> > Jefsey's architecture is ideal for the "real" @large I
> > envisage : not a
> > centralised ICANN pressure group, but a long-term network of
> > communities
> > which has an integrity just being what it is. It is less
> > 'political' : it is
> > more 'communal'. Whether ICANN succeeds, flourishes, evolves
> > or collapses,
> > the @large still exists  - and by developing in this way, it
> > will strengthen
> > its case against ICANN autocracy, and help make the ICANN
> > politburo seem
> > increasingly isolated, despotic and out of touch.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
> > To: <atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de>
> > Cc: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 2:52 PM
> > Subject: [atlarge-discuss] let keep cool, organized and simple
> >
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > > I am extremely confused by the situation regarding our
> > organization, its
> > > name and its web site(s). I am also surprised at the way we cannot
> > organize
> > > into some reasonable international simple concertance.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. name
> > >
> > > We are the @large. That name has history,  definitions,
> > records. We are
> > not
> > > a specific body, we are a crowd, and we want to be a large
> > crowd. We do
> > not
> > > want to be ruled and directed, but helped into common
> > understandings and
> > > actions.
> > >
> > > To that end we need some support structures. These
> > structures must have a
> > > name. That name is natural when we consider the countries (like
> > > france@large), by consequence we can think that icann@large will be
> > > understood as the @large people interested in ICANN.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. structure
> > >
> > > We have elected a panel (the name of which is naturally
> > panel@large) and
> > we
> > > need a small legal structure to embody it, the
> > > secretariat  (secretariat@large), the accounting etc...
> > That worldwide,
> > all
> > > Internet and administrative concerns structure needs a name.
> > >
> > > it can be world@large, internet@large, admin@large.
> > >
> > > I favor world@large for the reason the "@" is already
> > associated with
> > > Internet in the brainware and that, by nature, an
> > incorporated structure
> > is
> > > to carry administration. This also frees the names for more
> > specific WGs.
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. naming plan / directory
> > >
> > > we have a brainware built-in directory:
> > >
> > > - structure: wold@large, admin@large, possibly internet@large
> > > - geographic : france@large, new-york@large, etc..
> > > - thematic: icann@lagre, isoc@large, gac@large
> > >
> > > what people do with it, is their cup of tea. Names like:
> > >
> > > http://workdatlarge.org
> > > http://atlarge.ca
> > > http://at-large.de
> > >
> > > are good to me if it is good to them. Anyway I cannot do
> > anything about
> > it.
> > >
> > >
> > > 4. TLD
> > >
> > > The idea of including TLD in legal names does not make any
> > sense. If there
> > > is a TLD, it means it is an address. If there is no TLD, it
> > means it is a
> > > body.
> > >
> > > Including TLDs in names has been repetedly refused by WIPO
> > and judges as
> > > making any difference. It is confusing and only shows that
> > the people
> > > wearing it have not really understood what DNS is (unless
> > the TLD has a
> > > particular added meaning, apart from "I have been sold by ISOC").
> > >
> > > "atlarge.org" can be UDRPed by atlarge.com. A TLD is NO
> > part of a name.
> > The
> > > idea that a name must be on ".com", ".org", ".net" is a US
> > centric idea,
> > > which is outdated as ".info", ".us" etc. take over.
> > >
> > > This looks as people giving their telephone number, but not
> > bothering
> > about
> > > the area code. Their forename but not their name. The TLD
> > is the area code
> > > or the name in an Internet name. Boring to memorize it?
> > well if I tell you
> > > to send me a mail to "jefsey" and I suppose you know that I am
> > > under  "@club-internet.fr" who will be boring who?
> > >
> > >
> > > 4. the atlarge ULD
> > >
> > > an ULD (upper level domain) is an SLD used as a charter for
> > a proposed TLD
> > > (see below). Our target as @large is to have new TLDs
> > permitted ASAP. The
> > > first TLD we want is ".atlarge".
> > >
> > > To support that project I have initiated though the
> > world@wide foundation,
> > > the "@LARGE WORLD SYSTEM" (@WS project, to propose,
> > organize and operate
> > > the ".atlarge" ULD. That project obviously uses the SLD
> > ".atlarge.ws" for
> > > immediate support and also supports the ".atlarge" TLD as
> > part of the
> > > ICANN/ICP-3 compliant experimental dot-root project.
> > >
> > > This project will provide a free Internet name to every @large cell
> > > requesting it. It will be managed by the WG-@WS any of you
> > can join. Its
> > > CIC (Community Information Center) address is http://atlarge.ws.
> > >
> > > Upon registration an "xyz" @large cell will get the
> > following internet
> > > names supported:
> > > http://xyz.atlarge.ws xyz@large.ws and ---@xyz.atlarge.ws
> > > http://xyz.atlarge and ---@xyz.atlarge
> > > These internet names can be used as main or alias addresses.
> > >
> > > Please see the CIC for examples.
> > >
> > >
> > > 5. Site resources
> > >
> > > We need to help the local cells to establish their own sites. The
> > > world@wide foundation can provide free or very low cost
> > hosting of sites
> > to
> > > the WG and local cells - including ftp dedicated access,
> > mails and mailing
> > > lists. But it has not the management resources to organize
> > that. It needs
> > help.
> > >
> > >
> > > 6. Aliases
> > >
> > > It seems that a lot of misunderstandings on the @large name
> > issue comes
> > > from a lack of command of the aliases. To understand better:
> > >
> > > - domain names are very specific names of real properties
> > (machines, disk
> > > space, IP addresses, server etc). They have been used in a
> > confusing way.
> > > - Internet uses numbers (IP addresses) and names.
> > >
> > > Internet names are used by the DNS *and* by several other
> > functions to get
> > > into a defined place.
> > > - DNS relates a name to a machine
> > > - Apache relates a name on a machine to a virtual host
> > > - sendmail etc.. relates a name on a machine to a mailbox
> > into a mail
> > directory
> > >
> > > These systems accept aliases. This means that the same place may be
> > > accessed with different names. But that information has to
> > be provided to
> > > the corresponding tool (DNS, Apache, sendmail).
> > >
> > > The most common use of aliases is the "http://www.name.com"; and
> > > "http://name.com";. These are two different Internet names.
> > To be supported
> > > that names MUST have been entered as aliases (or CNAME in
> > DNS wording)
> > both
> > > in the DNS and in Apache.
> > >
> > > This means that the *existing* site http://icannatlarge.com
> > can be easily
> > > accessed as:
> > >
> > > - http://worldatlarge.org
> > > - http://world.atlarge.ws
> > > - http://joanna.lane.co.uk
> > > - http://www.jeff.williams.tk
> > >
> > > etc... as long as the IP of the server has been declared in
> > the DNS for
> > > these names and their www.aliases and that these names have
> > been entered
> > in
> > > the host configuration as aliases. Joop could have made it
> > supported for
> > > months. He asked for me to point icannatlarge.org to
> > icannatlarge,com but
> > > never provide the IP and the response on his ability to
> > accept it as an
> > alias.
> > >
> > >
> > > 7. organization management
> > >
> > > We obviously have an organization management problem. That
> > problem is not
> > > the problem of our group; that problem is generic. We want
> > to relate by
> > > mail between independent people and organizations and to take joint
> > > decisions, etc. while having people submitted to very
> > strict financial
> > > limitations irt access and traffic. This cannot simply be
> > done unless we
> > > design an appropriate tool. I think we are a unique group of various
> > > nations, cultures and competences to specify and test such
> > a product. We
> > > however need a few designers to program it.
> > >
> > >
> > >  >>> call for help
> > >
> > > With all this in mind I call for help. In order to :
> > >
> > > - share in the WG-@WS working group to manage the
> > ".atlarge" namespace.
> > > - share in a faq@atlarge site and mailing list to help the
> > @large people
> > to
> > > understand how to build the Internet presence of their cell
> > > - share in the specification and the development of a generic tool
> > > supporting our management. I suppose it should be written
> > in C for the
> > > server site and in Java for a local applet.
> > >
> > > jfc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------------
> > ----
> >
> >
> > >
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> >
>


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