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Re: [atlarge-discuss] election or disbanding
At 03:03 +0100 2003/03/17, J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin wrote:
>Dear Judyth,
>sending tons of words to explain your feelings will not change
>anything:
>
>1. you are only one of us
>
>2. you have been manipulated in being given a list which belongs to
> everyone.
>
>3. you stubbornly keep repeating the same wrong things, you do not
> listen and do not do what you say you will do (I know this will
> result in a 7000 words response... I would prefer the list)
Dear JeFsey,
VERY quickly
1. I know and think that's a good thing
2. I've been sent a file I didn't ask for, which I have not
opened or used. Nobody has made me do anything one way or
another. The list belongs to ICANNATLARGE.ORG as a group,
not to any individual member, and privacy concerns would
dictate that I not simply post the whole bloody thing on
the list.
3. "Wrong" is in the eye of the beholder: we disagree, as
we each have the right to do.
Sinec you don't like my words, I'll try to answer the rest by
quoting the words of others, including yourself, from past
messages.
>At 00:06 17/03/03, espresso@e-scape.net wrote:
>>Bruce Young and Eric Dierker are still Panelists along with you;
>
>No. Eric Dierker is not a Panelist. As I explained to you in detail
>I think he should, but the Chair never called him, he is not on the
>Panel list and he has not accepted to be there.
According to the rules (such as they are), there is no
requirement that the Chair personally invite the replacements.
There was a posting which named the people who were to be added,
some of whom declined to serve as replacements, but Eric posted
to say he would agree to serve:
From: eric@hi-tek.com
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 06:21:30 -0800
Organization: Hi-Tek.com.vn
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To: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
CC: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
References: <GMEHJOBGDHBJAFJNENBNCEMLCOAA.bruce@barelyadequate.info>
<001701c2d25d$3677af40$2c58fc3e@r6yll>
<3s3k4vorrbob2lbh6hq3pk10pe5gl4aplk@4ax.com>
<01dc01c2d299$9f70e340$1400a8c0@pc1>
<001501c2d2ac$b70d3860$3554fc3e@r6yll>
<00b001c2d3b5$b74ccc00$1400a8c0@pc1>
<5.2.0.9.0.20030214030158.00ac9630@mail.club-internet.fr>
Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] mad-house
I am quite sorry for the other members of the panel,
But I reluctantly accept this posting.
Do not think for a second I shall resign, Dierkers accept tasks and do
not step aside.
However if Richard Henderson changes his mind I salute him and give him
my panel seat.
Our first commitment is to incorporate somewhere. I like any EU, China,
US, of course Canada.
However I think perhaps Mexico is good due to neutrality and our strong
beliefs in developing countries.
The where of incorporation has clearly polarized this group. So the
panel must decide now where to incorporate. I will find the funds to
accomplish this once a decision is made. Then we can raise the
necessary capital to further the suggestions of Richard.
Eric Dierker
>By the way Vittorio never resigned. I explained that to you too.
>Several times. The three panelist today are Vittorio, Bruce and
>me.
From: Vittorio Bertola <vb@bertola.eu.org>
To: "YJ Park" <yjpark@myepark.com>,
"Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>
Cc: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:33:19 +0100
References: <GMEHJOBGDHBJAFJNENBNCEMLCOAA.bruce@barelyadequate.info>
<001701c2d25d$3677af40$2c58fc3e@r6yll>
<3s3k4vorrbob2lbh6hq3pk10pe5gl4aplk@4ax.com>
<01dc01c2d299$9f70e340$1400a8c0@pc1>
<001501c2d2ac$b70d3860$3554fc3e@r6yll>
<00b001c2d3b5$b74ccc00$1400a8c0@pc1>
In-Reply-To: <00b001c2d3b5$b74ccc00$1400a8c0@pc1>
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Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] [Resignation] New panel elections?
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[snip]
I was about to call a panel vote on new elections when I got this. May
I ask you and Richard to withhold your resignations for a couple of
days so that we can have a decent vote about dissolving the panel?
Otherwise I think I will resign too and let Jefsey continue with
Satyajit and whoever he wants.
Thanks,
--
vb. [Vittorio Bertola - vb [at] bertola.eu.org]<---
-------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/ <-----------------------
AND his message of yesterday confirms that he did indeed resign
after passing the list to Jan Siren and myself.
>>all it would take is one of them agreeing that you are to have
>>the list and run the election yourself ...
>
>dear, this is what we keep telling you !!! Bruce and I !!!
>
>>but that didn't happen.
>
>in which world do you live???
>In which language do Bruce and I have we to tell it to you.
From: <bruce@barelyadequate.info>
To: "At Large Panel" <atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de>,
"At-Large Discussion List" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:46:34 -0800
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Subject: [atlarge-discuss] RE: JUDYTH and JAN - we beg you to accept
Sorry I couldn't respond to this until I got home from work!
Jefsey Morfin wrote:
| So, on behalf of the remaining Panelists, as I am sure that
| Bruce, I cannot
| reach now, will support this,
I do!
| - I beg you to get and secure that list even if you are not entitled
| legally nor democratically to do it.
I agree.
| - you will have our full support should others use that list
| for spamming.
I wouldn't call using the list to conduct a vote "spamming," but you
certianly have my support to conduct the vote.
| - you have our full trust to act as list manager trustees
| from then on.
| However, we ask you not to take any initiative which would make you
| responsible. The vote system that the Panel has devised will
| permit the
| ballot sending trustees to know about the members, receiving
| trustees to
| know about the votes, but no one to know who voted what.
This is a good idea.
| Let understand that all of this is most probably only standard
| police/political provocation procedure. The next steps will include a
| destabilization of the elected panel saying that you influenced the
| elections because you wanted to be trustees and you wrote
| this or that.
| Look at the way Joop was attacked, no one wants you to suffer that.
Well . . . I wouldn't go that far. But we need to press on with this
election. So do what you must.
| I am ready to confirm all this by writing and send you a fax.
| I also ask to some who want on this list to be ready to testify that
| neither Judyth nor Jan asked for that list and that they only accepted
| because a legally entitled elected person asked them to do so in the
best
| common interest.
Agreed. I'll certianly sign such a list!
Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
>>Nor did any but
>>a small minority of those who voted in my ballot say "give
>>the list to Jefsey" or "give the list to Joop
>
>We never told you to give it to Jefsey nor to Joop.
>This would be totally absurd. As you had not noted
>it, you asked the 1% "group" about several possibilities
>but not the one the Panelists wanted.
>
>We tell you to give it to the Panelists, so Jan and you
>and the two remaining Panelists can perform their duty
>to this group.
>It looks like you never read a single of the memos
>we sent to you.
>
>Bruce, please have a try if you are still around !!!
>I give up !
This is Bruce's ballot in my informal vote:
From: <bruce@barelyadequate.info>
To: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:43:43 -0800
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Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] URGENT - Guidance required re:
membership list
| ---Ballot starts---
|
| I vote to have Judyth Mermelstein do the following with
| the membership list information provided to her:
|
| [ ] discard it unread
| [ ] retain it, encrypted, for backup purposes only
| [XX] retain it for use during the upcoming election as a
| means of distributing notices to all members
| [XX] retain it for use during the coming election as
| a voters' list against which incoming ballots should
| be checked
| [ ] retain it and keep it updated using the FTP access
| information provided to me
| [ ] release it to Joop in order to update the ICANNATLARGE.COM
| database and the list used by the Polling Booth
| [ ] release it to Jefsey and Bruce for use as they see fit
| in creating and operating a separate ICANNATLARGE.ORG
| voting application
| [ ] release it to all of the most recent list of Panelists
| [ ] Other: please specify.
|
| ---Ballot ends---
Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
Support democratic control of the Internet!
Go to http://www.icannatlarge.org and Join ICANN At Large!
after which...
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Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Results from "URGENT: Guidance
requested" mini-ballot
Outstanding! I don't have time to comment tonight, but I'll work on it
tomorrow at work and send it when I get home.
Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
Support democratic control of the Internet!
Go to http://www.icannatlarge.org and Join ICANN At Large!
[end]
I've e-mailed Bruce off-list asking him to clarify his position.
However, from everything he has written before, it doesn't
appear that he shares your opinion that I should simply have
sent you the list when you demanded it or that I'm "killing
the atlarge" by wanting us to create some basic rules
whereby nobody goes off and does what he wants without
obtaining the approval of the group.
That's *exactly* what went wrong with Joop and Vittorio on
previous occasions, and I was sorely disappointed to learn
that you favour the same methods. I understand that may be
the way your impatience shows itself, and I'm impatient now
myself - but I still think the group needs to develop a habit
of working together democratically or there's literally
no point to its existence.
By the way, I've been reading every word but that's not to say
I must inevitably agree with every word. If you're entitled
to dismiss my opinions, you must surely realize I don't have
to adopt yours.
Regards,
Judyth
##########################################################
Judyth Mermelstein "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
Montreal, QC <espresso@e-scape.net>
##########################################################
"A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
"Un mot suffit aux sages; pour les autres, il en faut plus."
##########################################################
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