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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: WG-DNS name protection
Stephen Waters wrote:
> Philosophically speaking, we make judgements based on heuristics. Even
> as you've learned that often "diplomacy is often a mask for bullshit",
> I've learned that "you attract flies with honey". Let's assume for a
> moment that your negative arguments are valid. What makes you think
> people are going to pay attention to you if you go on to use
> inflammatory language to criticize them in addition to the core
> argument?
Inflammatory language? Sarcasm and irony perhaps, but
inflammatory language? Please. Is someone putting you up
to this?
>
>
> Argue the point and get on with it. Ad hominem adds nothing.
>
> I, for one, do not support or elect people based on negative
> campaigning.
I am not campaigning. I am volunteering when nobody else
would. Whether or not you support my efforts as a
volunteer is entirely up to you.
> I imagine Panel members of a voluntary organization daily
> subject to public criticism in the midst of their personal workload and
> familial responsibilities will respond to ad hominem even less.
Mr. Gupta was warned (by myself) right after his election
that he better get on with the workload this time round as
I was going to be watching him closely. Check the
archives, my warning to him is there.. He has a history
of doing nothing as was clearly evident in the last
panel... His continued absence only vindicates my
position. Plus, I am not wihtout support on the issue of
Mr. Gupta, or hadn't you noticed?
> I would
> certainly be reluctant to hire a person for a job if they flamed me in
> public about something beyond my control.
Mr. Gupta's absence is not beyond his control.. check the
archives, he has a habit of appearing only to make
self-righteous statements in defense of his absence and
general indolence vis a vis this organization.
> I would think to myself "Does
> not play well with others. Cannot be trusted to do the job right."
Excuse me for saying so, but that is bullshit! The job of
webmaster is not a committee waiting to happen, it's a
technical job in which capacity one person is more than
sufficient. Furthermore, I'm not here to play, I'm here
to work. If you base your hiring assessments on
therapeutics and sandbox rules that's your business, but
in the real world results/actions speak louder than
camaraderie.
>
>
> You don't really believe some Panel members have been absent out of
> laze, do you?
Laze? Not at all. Outright disrespect for the
expectations of others and shameful
self-indulgence/absorption are more likely. Especially in
Mr. Gupta's case.
> While I agree they should excuse themselves or designate a
> proxy, unfortunately we're in sort of a Catch-22 here with lacking
> procedures, participation guidelines, etc. We need them to do something
> but they're in a bind and unable to do what we need, and we have no
> procedure yet for overruling that situation.
So, you're content with them sitting back and doing
nothing? What kind of a position is that?
>
>
> . Does yelling about it do anything at all to solve the Catch-22?
I'm criticizing where it's warranted, as is my democratic
right. What about you? How are you helping things?
>
> . Does sending repeated mails to the list regarding Gupta's absence make
> him any more likely to show up?
Probably not, which only drives my point home. As I
already mentioned, I warned him at the beginning of his
present tenure that I'd be watching him specifically.
>
> . Does your manner make the Panel more or less likely to think you'd use
> the website as a bully pulpit?
That's for the Panel to decide, and not for you or me.
Thanks for your thoughts and opinions, you're entitled to
them. Now, do you have anything constructive and/or
substantive to add to the common cause of moving this
organization
forward or not?
Sincerely,
Sotiris Sotiropoulos
>
>
> > > However, as an individual that's fine, of course.
> > >
> > > 2. The Slashcode-ish look is ok. You really need to change those <td
> > > bgcolor="#ffffff"> backgrounds to delineate between various content
> > > spaces, though.
> >
> > That is not a problem. The site I sent you all to look at is a mock-up of a possible
> > layout, not a finished product.
> >
> > > Personally, I prefer CSS to bgcolor declarations (easier
> > > on the file downloads, too...) but users of ancient browsers may need
> > > this deprecated crutch.
> >
> > We're trying to be inclusive here Stephen, I've been to public libraries here in
> > Toronto that are still running older browsers that do not render CSS correctly. I've
> > even left out unecessary graphics for those on slow connections... Anyway, it was an
> > example of what can be done, not what must be done. But, has anyone else offered up
> > another option?
>
> No one has, as far as I know. I was just offering constructive
> criticism.
>
> $0.02USD
> -s
>
> > > On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 17:06, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
> > > > http://www.worldatlarge.org/index.php
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> > > >
> > > > Hans Klein wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Sotiris,
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have a mock-up web site, I am sure we would all be eager to see it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you post the URL?
> > > > >
> > > > > Hans
> > > > >
> > > > > At 02:15 PM 10/16/2002 -0400, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
> > > > > >DannyYounger@cs.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jamie,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Before you begin questioning the relationship between established user
> > > > > > > organizations and ICANN, you might want to ask if your own group,
> > > > > > without any
> > > > > > > organizational documents, without even a mission statement, bylaws or
> > > > > > > charter, even qualifies as an organization suitable for recognition as an
> > > > > > > at-large structure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Perhaps a dis-organization, then? Especially of late.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Before I received this email from Danny, I was about to post a link to the
> > > > > >list
> > > > > >directing all of you to a mock-up web site which Hans requested I put together
> > > > > >(even though I had ALREADY set up the PHPNuke site for all of you to view a
> > > > > >couple months ago! Remember that ladies and gentlemen?!? Check the
> > > > > >archives, if
> > > > > >you like...). However, having read Danny's email I stopped myself and
> > > > > >decided to
> > > > > >visit the Panel's closed list archive for a look at how our leaders are going
> > > > > >about the business of this "organization". Much to my surprise, I saw a
> > > > > >motion
> > > > > >from Jamie Love (seconded by Hans Klein) to make Brett Faussett the new
> > > > > >webmaster. No offense against Brett, but where's he been for the last couple
> > > > > >months? I didn't hear him volunteering his services when a new webmaster was
> > > > > >being sought. Or, ( as is probably the case) is this some kind of a
> > > > > >compromise
> > > > > >selection to placate Joop? In any case, if this is the direction the Panel
> > > > > >wishes to take, then I wish them all the power in the world. However, I
> > > > > >cannot
> > > > > >for a moment understand why the WG-Web members (of which I am one) were not
> > > > > >consulted?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > As per the Committee on ICANN Evolution and Reform's Second Interim
> > > > > > > Implementation Report: "We agree that individual at large entities should
> > > > > > > meet some "accreditation" standard, and we find the criteria and standards
> > > > > > > recommended by the Assistance Group to be an attractive list."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This "list" stipulates structured, self-sustaining entities that engage in
> > > > > > > outreach and post current information about the organization's aims,
> > > > > > > structure, constituents, working mechanisms, and current leadership.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Your aims are not posted
> > > > > >
> > > > > >To date I submitted TWO different versions of Mission Statements for this
> > > > > >organization (both several months ago) which elicited next to no comments, and
> > > > > >yet there is still no substantive work produced by the 'power elite' among
> > > > > >us on
> > > > > >this issue. Shameful. This and the webmaster issue noted above are enough to
> > > > > >put off persons (such as myself) who are willing to contribute
> > > > > >substantively...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. You have no organizational structure
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Oh, but we do... dis-organization.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. You are not self-sustaining
> > > > > >
> > > > > >If bombast and self-important bluster were the fuel of the day, I'd say we're
> > > > > >self-perpetuating rather than self-sustaining.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 4. You have no established working mechanisms or procedures for the
> > > > > > general
> > > > > > > membership
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Why bother, that would detract from the nominal importance of our Panel
> > > > > >Members... BTW, Danny, have you perhaps heard anything from that champion
> > > > > >of the
> > > > > >common netizens, Satyajit Gupta? I wonder if the other Panel Members
> > > > > >approve of
> > > > > >his delinquency? If not, then why are there no steps being taken to
> > > > > >replace him?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 5. You can't document any organizational outreach activities
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Well, you might have something there. Perhaps Richard Henderson can fill
> > > > > >us in
> > > > > >on the progress towards the 100, 000 membership base he promised.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After you get your own house in order, then feel free to question the
> > > > > > > relationship of ISOC chapters to ICANN -- they at least meet the minimum
> > > > > > > criteria expected for an at-large structure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Except for the fact that they are now a Registry operator, which puts them
> > > > > >in the
> > > > > >gTLD constituency...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Seriously Disappointed,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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